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Forums Forums Language I need help with a "TRANSLATION", please!

  • I need help with a "TRANSLATION", please!

     Elentire updated 1 month, 3 weeks ago 4 Members · 12 Posts
  • nekoyashi

    Petitioner to the Council : 4 posts

    Mae govannen everyone,

    I’m a new member and I’m very happy to have joined. I hope someone can help me with this. I’ve been trying to translate the phrase “Feel my Heart” in Elvish and transcribing it in Tengwar Annatar Italics, for a possible VERY FIRST tattoo ever.

    I’ve been doing some research online through words and elvish dictionary sites and I think I might have found something but I’m not sure.

    All I came up with was this: “Órenya (my heart) felmë (emotion)” or “Felmë órenya” or “Mathon (feel/perceive) órenya” or “Óre nîn mathon” or I don’t know. I’m not even sure of the grammar and phrase structure either. I want to make sure to get the right translation/grammar structure before I commit it to a tattoo, which will be forever. I’m really hoping for more.

    Namárië…

    Aug 28, 2021 at 9:21 am
  • Xandarien

    Petitioner to the Council : 8 posts

    Mathon means ‘I feel’ as in ‘I physically feel with my hand’ so I don’t think you want to go with that!

    Fel- is the Sindarin verb for ‘to feel (a sensation or emotion)’, Felin = I feel.

    Unless you’re wanting ‘I feel my physical heart’, in which case the word for ‘heart’ is hûn (Mathon i chûn nîn = I feel my own physical heart with my hand) we want either gûr = heart, inner mind or ind = inner thoughts, some particular purpose or intention of an individual; heart

    Felin i ind nîn = I feel my heart, I feel my inner thoughts, I feel my own intentions

    Sep 13, 2021 at 1:08 am
    • nekoyashi

      Petitioner to the Council : 4 posts

      Thank you for your help, Xandarien…

      “Felin i ind (gûr) nîn” (I feel my heart, I feel my inner thoughts, I feel my own intentions), it’s all very clear now.

      But I should point out though that for “Feel my Heart” I actually intended: “(you) Feel my Heart”, as opposed to “(I) Feel my Heart”, if you follow my meaning. Would that be such a translation, you think?

      Thanks…

      Sep 14, 2021 at 2:55 am
      • Xandarien

        Petitioner to the Council : 8 posts

        Oh I see! In that case Felig = You feel (informal, someone you know well) or Felil = You feel (formal, stranger or someone in a position of authority) instead of Felin = I feel.

        If it’s meant to be plural, then either Felig = You (all) feel (informal)/Feligir = You all feel (informal) or Felidh = You (all) feel (formal).

        Sep 17, 2021 at 7:11 am
  • Elentire

    Petitioner to the Council : 10 posts

    Hi,

    Very sorry for taking so long to respond!

    I’ve got two different suggestions for Quenya, keeping in mind that the line is addressed to one person:

    Á felet órenya Feel my heart (imperative indicating a request, command or plea)

    Felit órenya or Felityë órenya You feel my heart (in the aorist tense meaning a universal truth; intimate/informal you)

    Please let me know if the meaning for any of these needs to be adapted! (:

    Sep 30, 2021 at 3:00 pm
    • nekoyashi

      Petitioner to the Council : 4 posts

      Thank you, Elentire for your help!

      Your answer is well accepted. Á felet órenya sounds good as well as transcribed for a tattoo, see here: https://www.tecendil.com/?q=%C3%81%20felet%20%C3%B3renya&mode=quenya&font=TengwarAnnatarItalic.

      I’m open to more suggestions, until I will make up my mind which translation is best for me.

      Thanks again…

      Oct 1, 2021 at 4:50 am
      • Elentire

        Petitioner to the Council : 10 posts

        You’re very welcome! (:

        I’m by no means a tengwar expert and can’t guarantee anything, but the transcription you linked looks exactly like the result I get when attempting to transcribe the line using my usual tools, so it should hopefully be good enough 👍

        Oct 1, 2021 at 7:53 pm
    • Gilruin

      Petitioner to the Council : 5 posts

      Don‘t you think á felet órenya >>> á felit órenya? It’s the same form as in felit órenya historically after all.

      Dec 3, 2021 at 3:10 am
      • Elentire

        Petitioner to the Council : 10 posts

        Hi Linnuial,

        You’re absolutely right, my mistake! Thank you for picking up on that, and for the heads up regarding hondo. (:

        Dec 5, 2021 at 12:06 pm
  • Gilruin

    Petitioner to the Council : 5 posts

    Heads up to @Elentire and @Xandarien : Nature of Middle-Earth gave us a new “heart” word, the one everyone has been requesting for years: √KᴴOM > Q. hondo “(seat of the) deepest feelings” (NM/176), for which a Sindarin cognate would be ᴺS. hond.

    With this new word the sentence would be:
    Q. á felë/felit hondonya “feel [you] my heart!”
    Q. feluvatyë hondonya “will you feel my heart?”
    S. felo i chond nîn “feel [you] my heart!”
    S. felathog i chond nîn “will you feel my heart?”
    The second option is a more polite possibility re-framing the wish as a question.

    Dec 1, 2021 at 12:27 pm
  • nekoyashi

    Petitioner to the Council : 4 posts

    Thank you so much @Linnuial and to all who have helped up to now!

    I’ll be checking out for more until I will finally decide which translation is best for me!

    Namárië…

    Dec 2, 2021 at 5:29 am
    • Gilruin

      Petitioner to the Council : 5 posts

      They are all pretty much the same (except for the newly published word hondo). There are 5 possible forms for a request in Quenya, arranged from most to least rude/demanding:

      Suffixed : felá hondonya “feel my heart!”
      Simple infinitive: felë hondonya “feel my heart”
      Preceding á: á felë hondonya “do feel my heart.”
      With mecin: á felë hondonya, mecin “feel my heart, please.”
      Question as request: feluvatyë hondonya? “will you feel my heart?”
      Question with mecin: feluvatyë hondonya, mecin? “will you please feel my heart, please?”

      For Sindarin we know less, especially lacking a word for “please” but we can make a two way distinction:

      Imperative: felo i chond nîn
      Question as request: felathog i chond nîn

      When writing Q. feluvatyë, S. felathog I assumed that you are addressing one person you know very well, for a stranger or in a context where you need to be formal it would be Q. feluvalyë, S. felathol, for multiple people Quenya looses its familiar—formal distinction and the form becomes feluvaldë, for Sindarin it’s formal felathodh(ir) and familiar felathogir.

      The Quenya versions can be written like this, the Sindarin versions like this or like this. Ignore the language warning and don’t change the mode but feel free to change the font (except Tengwar Formal, it has alignment issues).

      If you don‘t have a strong language preference for whatever reason, I recommend you choosing Quenya, our knowledge about it is much more refined and stable, whereas for Sindarin we often need to make educated guesses (just like it happened with hondo: A Quenya word was published and then I reconstructed how this word would likely have ended up after the Sindarin sound laws, assuming Sindarin shared the word and kept it to mean the same as in Quenya). That said, just like we got hondo a couple of moths ago, in a couple of years a essay could be published that rejects it on the basis that Elvish doesn’t share this concept with English or that it was actually derived from a different root or that fel- is the wrong verb etc. If that’s fine with you then no problem, it’s not like somebody is going to notice, but the safest bet will be always to transcribe an English sentence into Tengwar instead of translating (still pretty, less headache involved, many canonical examples, done constantly by Tolkien himself e. g. on the first page of LotR), which would look like this.

      Just so that you have everything in one place for consideration 😉

      Dec 2, 2021 at 8:10 am
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