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A Tolkien Virgin: The Return of the King - Book VI - Chapter 9 - The Journey ENDS!

January 1, 2003
Submitted By Jonathan

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It's been a long time coming, but our Tolkien Virgin, Mark-Edmond, has submitted his final review.  Yes, he finished the books long ago with his many notes and thoughts intact, so it truly didn't take him 3 years to finish the books.  I can't say enough to thank him for doing this.  He has written 103 reviews... a review for each chapter in The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, and The Return of the King.  That, my friends, is dedication (and no, there was no other incentive for him to do this)... For those of you just coming across our Tolkien Virgin for the first time, I encourage you to start at the beginning, or do what many have done and read the books again, and when you finish each chapter, compare your mental notes with Mark-Edmond's reviews.

And so, without further delay, here is his final entry!


Book VI
Chapter 9
The Grey Havens
(and Tolkien Virgin concluding thoughts)

*silence*

"But Sam was no sorrowful at heart, and it seemed to him that if the parting would be bitter, more grievous still would be the long road home alone..."When it's all said and done, I find myself staring at the last words on the last page in silence, awash in emotion, wondering "how can it end?" But like I mentioned in my last article, I know it doesn't really end. The story is alive, and I can imagine Middle-rarth going on into the Fourth Age. But, I still feel like I'm losing something since without the words to guide me there comes a point in the future too shrouded in mist that I can no longer see and can only wonder what becomes of Middle-earth. I want to stay in Middle-earth and watch its history continue to unfold. I don't want to say goodbye to the characters I've grown attached to. Sam's fitting words there at the end strike me as the beginning of something, the details of which are left to speculation--at least for those things not clarified in the Appendixes and Tolkien's notes and other writings.

Well, I was wondering about Fatty Bolger, and low and behold, I turn the page and there he is--our last conspirator--being released from the Lockholes along with the other prisoners, though I was disappointed that he played no other role. Lobelia, whom I found I no longer despised, was among the prisoners, and I was pleased to see "the feud" ended and Frodo returned to Bag End. That was smooth writing on Tolkien's part. After all, we couldn't have Frodo back in the Shire and way over in Crickhollow, but it had to take a life changing event to get Lobelia to give up Bag End--and for nothing.

I was even more pleased, of course, to see the beginning of the healing of the Shire. I don't know about you, but I (like Frodo) hadn't forgot about Galadriel's gift to Sam. Not to toot my own horn, or anything, but I suspected that it would be used in just such a fashion. I did have a hard time believing that there was enough "dust" in that box to do as much good as Tolkien would have us believe (I mean just how big was that box, and just how tiny the grains of dust inside?), but it was a nice touch. Especially the mallorn. On the other hand, though, I will say that with the trees growing back so fast and the harvest being so great, and everything being repaired and improved, there seems little left to remind the Hobbits of the threatening darkness just passed and the danger they faced and the loved ones dead and gone... the Shire is, indeed, going back to sleep, and I'm not convinced that that's a good thing.

With Pippin and Merry more jovial than ever, and Sam wed to Rosie and living with Frodo in Bag End with his new-born daughter, the only hint of shadow is the one that continues to haunt Frodo. We are reminded in one instance of his loss of the ring, and in another about his evil wound from the attack on Weathertop. He is most definitely changed, lacking joy. And with Bilbo's 131st birthday come, Frodo and Sam set out once more.

Along the road they meet up with the elves and Bilbo, and it dawned on me as it did on Sam, Frodo's going with them. Well, I was torn. How sad it is that Frodo can't enjoy what he sacrificed to save. But, on the other hand, if there can be no rest for his spirit in Middle-earth, then perhaps  he can find what he needs in Valinor. Tolkien's words here are apt, "It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them." Fiction or no, that's something it would be good for us all to remember. On an aside, I thought it odd how in this critical paragraph, Frodo seems to be able to see into the future a ways--is this just informed guessing, or part of how he's changed? So much for the possibilty of long talks with Tom Bombadil, Frodo's journey will take him to a place where there are plenty of fascinating persons with whom to keep conversation. Though I wouldn't be surprised if Sam worked his way back to talk with Tom every now and then.

At the Grey Havens I was delighted to come across Cirdan the Shipwright again. He's one of those characters that helps keep the entire story tied together from the Silmarillion till the end of the Lord of the Rings for me. I can think back on the thousands of years he's lived and the things he's gone through and it just amazes me. (In the Silmarillion, I took more notice of Cirdan than I did of Galadriel or other characters that also appear in the Lord of the Rings.)

The story wouldn't be complete without Gandalf, of course. With him wearing Narya the Great, Elrond wearing Vinya, and Galadriel wearing Nenya, the Three are together for the last time in Middle-earth, their time now passed. The last-minute arrival of Merry and Pippin is followed swiftly by farewells and the final departure. Will there be a ship for Sam one day, I wonder: "There still he stood far into the night, hearing only the sigh and murmur of the waves on the shores of Middle-earth, and the sound of them sank deep into his heart."

When Sam gets home, he's presented with Elanor. Time to get back to life. And it all ends with that perfect phrase, "'Well, I'm back,' he said."


The Appendices

Now, naturally, I went on to read the Appendices, as well. Appendix A was especially interesting. I was excited to see Cirdan appear, again (what's the deal with me and Cirdan??). The story of the destruction of Angmar was really cool. I was particularly glad to get more background information about the Witch-king. It expands my appreciation of him as an enemy--more than just the nastiest "Black Rider." The section about the War of the Dwarves and the Orcs was interesting. And I was stoked that it ends with the bits about Legolas and Gimli: Gimli and some other dwarves inhabited the Glittering Caves and Legolas along with some elves from the Greenwood inhabited Ithilien. I totally love how it ends with the suggestion that maybe Gimli joined Legolas as he finally sailed over Sea. In Appendix B, we learn a few things, as well. Especially noteworthy is the later years of Sam and how he too sailed over Sea, the eventual deaths of Merry and Pippin, and again the suggestion that Legolas went with Gimli to Valanor..

That being said... Those of you who are big fans of the Appendices probably have noticed that I've yet to comment on the section about Aragorn and Arwen that everyone seems to think is so special. Well, I hated it. Not all of it. Just the end of it. It trully, and fundamentally ruined my opinion of Aragorn. Every time I read the books after this I'll never be able to think of Aragorn/Strider like I did, before. And in that respect, reading the Appendives has actually decreased my overall enjoyment of the books in general--knowing that one of the primary characters (one we're supposed to believe is noble and good) could turn out to be such a butt. Arwen gave up immortality (in a sense) and life with her kind in Valanor and took on the uncertainty of death all for love of Aragorn and how does he thank her? He selfishly chooses to die rather than grow old and feeble. Absolutely horrible. She loved him and wanted him stay with her longer, but he broke her heart and effectively killed her when he chose the easy way to end his life. After everything that he would do something so selfish like that... man, that just really pisses me off. But, hey, I wouldn't be the Tolkien Virgin, if I couldn't find something I didn't like, right?


The Lord of the Rings

So, what did I think of the Lord of the Rings, over all? Awesome. Of all the authors I've read, Tolkien brings a sense of reality to Middle-earth that other authors can't match. There is a depth to Tolkien's writing that makes LotR literature and the rest (or nearly so) pulp-Fantasy. I know I'm repeating myself, but Middle-earth is astoundingly real. Also, something I've found in other fantasy stories, that is thankfully lacking in Lord of the Rings, is an overwhelming emphasis on magic. Magic in Middle-earth is far more subtle (if it can even be compared to the magic in other Fantasy stories), and in that way far more refreshing and, ultimately, rewarding.

Now, don't get me wrong I love "lesser" authors and the occasional easy read, too. Moreover, I haven't become a Tolkien fantatic. I almost never re-read books, and although there is a nobility, a greatness to LotR that others lack, I don't find myself compelled to re-read it over and over. I hate to disapoint those folks who have followed me along all this time in hopes that I would love LotR as much they do, but I read it, I thought it was incredible, but I didn't love every minute of it. And I'm defintely not so affected that all other Fantasy books are no longer worth reading.

Certainly no reading of LotR would be complete without at least one re-read, but you have to understand that by going through the books (starting with the Silmarillion) as slowly and as carefully as I did, in order to be able to write something thoughtful about each chapter (well, hey, at least I tried) now that I've finally reached the end, I find I have no desire to proceed with the obligatory re-read any time soon. Having read a lot of the comments on my reviews I was tempted to lie at this point so as not to disappoint the die-hard Virgin followers, but alas! I was unable. Don't fret though, there is still a part of me looking forward to eventually reading through it again. It'll be fun to go back through it along with my old Tolkien Virgin reviews and see what kinds of stupid stuff I wrote!


What about the movies?

With the movies coming out, I feel compelled to say something on the subject: How? That's my question. How can any movie ever do justice to the Lord of the Rings? They're bound to screw things up, cut things out, alter the story in major ways to fit the movie format, and I'm extremely doubtful that the final product could be in any way satisfying to anyone who has truly appreciated Tolkien's work. Then there's the casting selections--I'm sorry but Sean Astin is NOT Sam! Elijah Wood is DEFINITELY NOT Frodo. That skinny gaunt faced guy is nothing like the Strider/Aragorn I found in the pages of the books. And how could anyone mistake Kate Blanchett (albeit easy-on-the-eyes as she is) for Galadriel? Of course, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the movies anyway. Maybe, if I can divorce my experience of reading the Lord of the Rings from the movies (yeah, right!), maybe then I can enjoy the movies on their own, as being merely inspired by the books. Hmmm...


Thoughts on the Tolkien Virgin Project

I started this project with one purpose in mind. Read the Silmarillion first and then see how it affected my reading of the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings. The idea was to simply jot down some notes when I came across something interesting and post them along the way paying particularly close attention to those things first mentioned in the Silmarillion that I came across in the later (chronologically) books. Oops. I made the mistake of writing more about the first few chapters in the Silmarillion than I had intended and Ted and Jonathan (the creators of Tolkien Online and a couple of my closest friends) quickly conveyed to me their desire for me to continue writing reviews about each chapter. Along the way, my articles became simple summary/opinion reviews of each chapter, and believe me, it wasn't easy. Some folks will quickly point out that it was an extremely unnatural way of reading LotR and that my reviews and experience in general were skewed by the fact that I tried desperately to come up with something to write about each chapter when I frequently wanted to just keep reading (many articles are more summary than they are opinion-oriented).

The question nobody really cares about: So, how DID your reading of the Silmarillion before the other books affect the rest of your Middle-earth experience? Hmmm. There were a lot of people who thought reading the Silmarillion first would somehow ruin or detract from my Lord of the Rings experience. Certainly I experienced LotR differently than anyone who started with the Hobbit or Fellowship (that was the whole point). And although it is valid to assert that the books were initially intended to be read without prior knowledge of the Silmarillion, I think that reading the Silmarillion did NOT negatively affect my reading of the Hobbit or LotR. There was such a backlash against my reading the "Of the Third Age" section at the end of the Silmarillion (since it would have spoiled all of the major points in the rest of the books) that I didn't read that section. So, by reading the Silmarillion first in the way that I did, I got all the history without the spoilers.

Did understanding the reference to Orome or my knowledge of Telperion, the Eldest of Trees, or other such references destroy some of the magic and wonder that other virgin readers experience? Yes, but in a good way. Sometimes not knowing what this or that reference means can be delightful in that it tickles your imagination with possibilities or even just a general unknown. But in this situation, I think knowing the meaning behind the occasional reference to something that was in the Silmarillion enhanced my Lord of the Rings experience. The truth, in this case, is so much more enriching than a tickled imagination. Where some people pause and think, "huh... I wonder what that could possibly mean," I thought, "Wow! That's awesome!" I will admit that ultimately there were very few direct references to the Silmarillion that I noticed. For example, if Ted hadn't accidentally mentioned it to me, I wouldn't have understood the significance of Faramir's passing reference to Gandalf as Oromir in Towers. I will also admit, as is obvious from reading my reviews of the Silmarillion, that by the time I'd finished the Silmarillion, I was really pissed off. After all, it's a well-written collection of horrible tragedies piled one on top of the other. But, I still think that anyone who reads the Silmarillion first will have a more enriching Lord of the Rings experience, by knowing the unthinkable list of tragedies that have led up to this more satisfying (for me, at least) victory and sense of hope for the future (I'll always remember Galadriel's cryptic comment to Treabeard in Many Partings). Clearly the dry style and depressing events in the Silmarillion are a good way to scare away virgin readers, but I would recommend reading the Silmarillion first to anyone I thought could handle it--after telling them not to expect bowls of cherries and cream.

And finally, I would like to express my thanks to anyone who has joined me on my virgin journey through Middle-earth. I know my comments have upset more than a few of you, but to all of you who have stuck with me to the end: thank you, thank you, thank you. Most especially to all those folks who have posted positive and encouraging messages for me in the comments section beneath the articles and on the messageboard: you have my heartfelt appreciation.

Keep thinking!

Sore dewa, itsumademo ogenki de. Sayonara.

Mark-Edmond Howell
the former Tolkien Virgin
Kanazawa, Japan
far(out)

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... 85 Comments

  1. First, I will say thank you, to Mark-Edmond for his dedication to this task over the years.

    Now then, while there are a dozen things to comment on here, I will focus on just one. The reaction to the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. Few times has Mark-Edmond's reaction been more surpirinsing or (to me) distressing. There are a variety of things about Tolkien which are acquired tastes but here Mark-Edmond seems to have missed the values that underlay Aragorn's decision since he not only disagrees with them but fails to mention them.

    This is the central theme of the Akallabeth. Men were originally created not to die (or so they say) but the best they can hope for islive out the full span of their days in health and vigour. Those who are falling under the Shadow greedily grasp at life until it is taken from them. Those who remain true surrender their lives when they are required of them.

    Aragorn's life is over, and he knows it. But it is given to him to choose the manner of his death (ie by choice or force). Arwen's request is both selfish and immoral since she is asking him to hold on to life longer than is licet. It is simply the emotional ramblings of greif and he is right to refuse it.

    Comment by Eluchil - January 2, 2003 @ 12:31 AM

  2. First, I will say thank you, to Mark-Edmond for his dedication to this task over the years.

    Now then, while there are a dozen things to comment on here, I will focus on just one. The reaction to the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. Few times has Mark-Edmond's reaction been more surpirinsing or (to me) distressing. There are a variety of things about Tolkien which are acquired tastes but here Mark-Edmond seems to have missed the values that underlay Aragorn's decision since he not only disagrees with them but fails to mention them.

    This is the central theme of the Akallabeth. Men were originally created not to die (or so they say) but the best they can hope for islive out the full span of their days in health and vigour. Those who are falling under the Shadow greedily grasp at life until it is taken from them. Those who remain true surrender their lives when they are required of them.

    Aragorn's life is over, and he knows it. But it is given to him to choose the manner of his death (ie by choice or force). Arwen's request is both selfish and immoral since she is asking him to hold on to life longer than is licet. It is simply the emotional ramblings of greif and he is right to refuse it.

    Comment by Eluchil - January 2, 2003 @ 12:31 AM

  3. I, too, grateful as I am for Mark Edmond's's brilliant exposition on LOTR et al, am surprised at his reaction to Aragorn's choice. Still, the joy of these boards is that we may differ fundamentally in opinion from others, yet still agree that Tolkien is a Master storyteller. I felt, like Mark, that Middle-earth went on after the book finished, and I've had fun in Rivendell, and other places in ME for nearly fifty years. It is lovely to read of others reaction to portions of the story, and to discover who are their favourites! Well done, Mark! ..and Thank You!

    Comment by despoina - January 2, 2003 @ 1:18 AM

  4. I, too, grateful as I am for Mark Edmond's's brilliant exposition on LOTR et al, am surprised at his reaction to Aragorn's choice. Still, the joy of these boards is that we may differ fundamentally in opinion from others, yet still agree that Tolkien is a Master storyteller. I felt, like Mark, that Middle-earth went on after the book finished, and I've had fun in Rivendell, and other places in ME for nearly fifty years. It is lovely to read of others reaction to portions of the story, and to discover who are their favourites! Well done, Mark! ..and Thank You!

    Comment by despoina - January 2, 2003 @ 1:18 AM

  5. Many thanks Mark. I really enjoyed reading your impressions. Having read the books many times I had forgotten how the books touched me at first. I don't think, however, that I will ever forget that empty feeling I got the first time I finished ROTK. I needed the story to go on.

    Comment by HeirOfIsildur - January 2, 2003 @ 2:53 AM

  6. Many thanks Mark. I really enjoyed reading your impressions. Having read the books many times I had forgotten how the books touched me at first. I don't think, however, that I will ever forget that empty feeling I got the first time I finished ROTK. I needed the story to go on.

    Comment by HeirOfIsildur - January 2, 2003 @ 2:53 AM

  7. Made a great read. pld.

    Comment by MiniGollum - January 2, 2003 @ 5:13 AM

  8. Made a great read. pld.

    Comment by MiniGollum - January 2, 2003 @ 5:13 AM

  9. Aragorn's whole life is overshadowed by the fear of repeating his ancestors mistakes, Isuldur's failure to destoy the ring, Numenor's destruction, etc.

    His is an all or nothing quest. If he is able to right the wrongs off the past by helping to destroy the ring and defeat Sauron only then would he re-claim the Kingship. This, in my opinoin, is why he chooses a life in exile in his early years and refuses to declare his anscestory openly until Sauron is defeated.

    His choice to die gracefully rather than to cling to life until he is feeble and dotard is tied to this in that, Death was a gift to men from Illuvatar. Then Sauron fooled men into thinking it was a curse and should be feared and they should crave immortality. Which was the main reason Numenor was destroyed.

    So, in a way, this is his last test, to die peacably and willingly without fear when it is his time go(lest he start Gondor on Numenor's path).
    It's not the easy way, it's the hard way.

    Comment by maxkazar - January 2, 2003 @ 7:39 AM

  10. Aragorn's whole life is overshadowed by the fear of repeating his ancestors mistakes, Isuldur's failure to destoy the ring, Numenor's destruction, etc.

    His is an all or nothing quest. If he is able to right the wrongs off the past by helping to destroy the ring and defeat Sauron only then would he re-claim the Kingship. This, in my opinoin, is why he chooses a life in exile in his early years and refuses to declare his anscestory openly until Sauron is defeated.

    His choice to die gracefully rather than to cling to life until he is feeble and dotard is tied to this in that, Death was a gift to men from Illuvatar. Then Sauron fooled men into thinking it was a curse and should be feared and they should crave immortality. Which was the main reason Numenor was destroyed.

    So, in a way, this is his last test, to die peacably and willingly without fear when it is his time go(lest he start Gondor on Numenor's path).
    It's not the easy way, it's the hard way.

    Comment by maxkazar - January 2, 2003 @ 7:39 AM

  11. "Arwen gave up immortality (in a sense) and life with her kind in Valanor and took on the uncertainty of death all for love of Aragorn and how does he thank her? He selfishly chooses to die rather than grow old and feeble. Absolutely horrible. She loved him and wanted him stay with her longer, but he broke her heart and effectively killed her when he chose the easy way to end his life. After everything that he would do something so selfish like that... man, that just really pisses me off."

    Well, that is simply wrong, and Mark, you read the part that shows why. Recall that the kings of Numenoralways chose when to lay down their longer lives (unless slain or killed by disease in an untimely manner). He chose when to die instead of the following:

    "And Atanamir lived to a great age, clinging to his life beyond the end of all joy; and he was the first of the Numenoreans to do this, refusing to depart until he was witless and unmanned, and denying to his son the kingship at the height of his days. For the Lords of Numenor had been wont to wed late in their long lives and to depart and leave the mastery to their sons when these were come to full stature of body and mind (Akallabeth, top p.266 in my hardcover edition)".

    This if anything is one of the most striking passages for me concerning Men in the Silmarillion. I've had relatives live in constant suffering through the 'miracles' of modern medicine, far beyond the time when they or any other family or friend could enjoy their lives. More than magic, all I want from Middle-Earth is for people to die with some grace and dignity when their time is come, as it eventually does for all of us. A bit downbeat...sorry. But I felt it was important enough to comment on.

    I have greatly enjoyed the Tolkien Virgin series, looking eagerly for the next installment every time. More than any other books I've read, Sil/Hobbit/LotR is really an experience. I started with Hobbit, then LotR, then Sil. Re-reading the books several times, picking up new bits every time to fill in the image. Getting an understanding, however fragmentary, of someone else's experience has been really enjoyable.

    Thanks for all of your time, Mark. Have you given any thoughts to Unfinished Tales? Just kidding

    -Mike

    Comment by mkletch - January 2, 2003 @ 8:11 AM

  12. "Arwen gave up immortality (in a sense) and life with her kind in Valanor and took on the uncertainty of death all for love of Aragorn and how does he thank her? He selfishly chooses to die rather than grow old and feeble. Absolutely horrible. She loved him and wanted him stay with her longer, but he broke her heart and effectively killed her when he chose the easy way to end his life. After everything that he would do something so selfish like that... man, that just really pisses me off."

    Well, that is simply wrong, and Mark, you read the part that shows why. Recall that the kings of Numenoralways chose when to lay down their longer lives (unless slain or killed by disease in an untimely manner). He chose when to die instead of the following:

    "And Atanamir lived to a great age, clinging to his life beyond the end of all joy; and he was the first of the Numenoreans to do this, refusing to depart until he was witless and unmanned, and denying to his son the kingship at the height of his days. For the Lords of Numenor had been wont to wed late in their long lives and to depart and leave the mastery to their sons when these were come to full stature of body and mind (Akallabeth, top p.266 in my hardcover edition)".

    This if anything is one of the most striking passages for me concerning Men in the Silmarillion. I've had relatives live in constant suffering through the 'miracles' of modern medicine, far beyond the time when they or any other family or friend could enjoy their lives. More than magic, all I want from Middle-Earth is for people to die with some grace and dignity when their time is come, as it eventually does for all of us. A bit downbeat...sorry. But I felt it was important enough to comment on.

    I have greatly enjoyed the Tolkien Virgin series, looking eagerly for the next installment every time. More than any other books I've read, Sil/Hobbit/LotR is really an experience. I started with Hobbit, then LotR, then Sil. Re-reading the books several times, picking up new bits every time to fill in the image. Getting an understanding, however fragmentary, of someone else's experience has been really enjoyable.

    Thanks for all of your time, Mark. Have you given any thoughts to Unfinished Tales? Just kidding

    -Mike

    Comment by mkletch - January 2, 2003 @ 8:11 AM

  13. First, I have to add my .02 on the Aragorn's death issue. I agree with the others above that Aragorn chose the right path for him, and think that you, Mark-Edmond, may in time reconsider your own stance, perhaps with those future re-readings you so naively think you're not going to do }:-)>

    "Numenorean King" considerations aside, he also spared Arwen the agony of seeing him decline into senescence. This can be a very agonizing experience for loved ones, to see a beloved parent or partner decline from the healthy and vital person whose company you enjoyed so much to a bedridden shell you are powerless to help. Aragorn lived to the ripe old age of 210 before he lay down and died--painful as this had to have been for Arwen, the alternative would have been worse.

    That said, I too have really enjoyed the Tolkien Virgin series. Most of us familiar with Tolkien read the Hobbit and LOTR when we were barely old enough to make sense of the sentences, and they've been an integral part of our inner worlds ever since. Those of our (or at least my) adult friends who are intelligent and educated enough to appreciate the books, are either too busy for anything longer than magazine articles and/or "too sophisticated for fantasy". It's a real pleasure to get the take of an educated, worldy adult encountering our beloved mythos for the first time. Especially when they like it. Validating, that.

    Comment by TiJean - January 2, 2003 @ 9:28 AM

  14. First, I have to add my .02 on the Aragorn's death issue. I agree with the others above that Aragorn chose the right path for him, and think that you, Mark-Edmond, may in time reconsider your own stance, perhaps with those future re-readings you so naively think you're not going to do }:-)>

    "Numenorean King" considerations aside, he also spared Arwen the agony of seeing him decline into senescence. This can be a very agonizing experience for loved ones, to see a beloved parent or partner decline from the healthy and vital person whose company you enjoyed so much to a bedridden shell you are powerless to help. Aragorn lived to the ripe old age of 210 before he lay down and died--painful as this had to have been for Arwen, the alternative would have been worse.

    That said, I too have really enjoyed the Tolkien Virgin series. Most of us familiar with Tolkien read the Hobbit and LOTR when we were barely old enough to make sense of the sentences, and they've been an integral part of our inner worlds ever since. Those of our (or at least my) adult friends who are intelligent and educated enough to appreciate the books, are either too busy for anything longer than magazine articles and/or "too sophisticated for fantasy". It's a real pleasure to get the take of an educated, worldy adult encountering our beloved mythos for the first time. Especially when they like it. Validating, that.

    Comment by TiJean - January 2, 2003 @ 9:28 AM

  15. Just goes to show you, to each his own. I felt that Peter Jackson plucked vision of the characters out of my head and cast it just like he saw it. I thought Ralph Bakshi's version of Aragorn was pitiful. If you read Tolkien's (through Gandalf's description) description of Frodo, I think it fits Elijah Wood to a "T".

    Comment by MagicFire - January 2, 2003 @ 9:52 AM

  16. Just goes to show you, to each his own. I felt that Peter Jackson plucked vision of the characters out of my head and cast it just like he saw it. I thought Ralph Bakshi's version of Aragorn was pitiful. If you read Tolkien's (through Gandalf's description) description of Frodo, I think it fits Elijah Wood to a "T".

    Comment by MagicFire - January 2, 2003 @ 9:52 AM

  17. Thank you for all the time you put into these articles. The time you took to do this has enriched and enlivened many lives. Thank you

    "Tolkien's words here are apt, "It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them." Fiction or no, that's something it would be good for us all to remember." This sentance struck me, I would say HARD, when I first read the books, and it has been a... shall we say, integral part of my... attitude ever since. I don't want to seem strange, but it seems a good rule to live by, doesn't it? Never fear to give something up, if you can save others by doing it. I have never been put to the test, I doubt many people have but if you could wouldn't you be willing to give your life and happiness to save the happiness of everyone else? Yes, I agree with Tolkien there and I agree with what you said... I just feel strongly about it so I had to stick something in there.

    About the Aragorn issue, I have to agree with those people who posted already, especially mkletch and TiJean. For Aragorn to have pushed his life would have been following in the footsteps of the Numenorean kings; and I don't mean the good ones, either. I mean the ones who got Numenore sunk below the waves. Seeking to live beyond his time would have lessened his heroic nobility, not greatened it. Aside from that, there is also what TiJean said; it would have been much more painful for Arwen to watch him dwindle into senility than for him to die still noble and strong and leave the kingdom to his son while his son was still in the prime of his life.

    Once again thank you for all your time and commitment.

    Comment by luthienelflover - January 2, 2003 @ 10:06 AM

  18. Thank you for all the time you put into these articles. The time you took to do this has enriched and enlivened many lives. Thank you

    "Tolkien's words here are apt, "It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them." Fiction or no, that's something it would be good for us all to remember." This sentance struck me, I would say HARD, when I first read the books, and it has been a... shall we say, integral part of my... attitude ever since. I don't want to seem strange, but it seems a good rule to live by, doesn't it? Never fear to give something up, if you can save others by doing it. I have never been put to the test, I doubt many people have but if you could wouldn't you be willing to give your life and happiness to save the happiness of everyone else? Yes, I agree with Tolkien there and I agree with what you said... I just feel strongly about it so I had to stick something in there.

    About the Aragorn issue, I have to agree with those people who posted already, especially mkletch and TiJean. For Aragorn to have pushed his life would have been following in the footsteps of the Numenorean kings; and I don't mean the good ones, either. I mean the ones who got Numenore sunk below the waves. Seeking to live beyond his time would have lessened his heroic nobility, not greatened it. Aside from that, there is also what TiJean said; it would have been much more painful for Arwen to watch him dwindle into senility than for him to die still noble and strong and leave the kingdom to his son while his son was still in the prime of his life.

    Once again thank you for all your time and commitment.

    Comment by luthienelflover - January 2, 2003 @ 10:06 AM

  19. Here's another vote for Aragorn's way. And special kudos to maxkazar and mkletch for putting it just right.

    What Mark did for me is let me feel again, the way I felt the first time I read "'Well, I'm back,' he said." That surprisingly emotional feeling of wonder, awe and "NO IT CAN'T BE OVER?!". So thanks, Mark.

    As I've grown older, and now handed down the love of Middle Earth to at least one of my children, I've discovered from other background reading why I think I connected with Tolkien. Frodo in the end turns into such a Catholic role model for me.

    "It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them."

    Now, if that cannonize Frodo...Anyway, now with the eyes of a 46 year old who rereads the books once a year since I was 17 its funny how different parts of the book become my favorite as I grow older and change myself.

    Mark I hope at some point can re-read the books for pure enjoyment and appreciation.

    Comment by Ignats75 - January 2, 2003 @ 1:43 PM

  20. Here's another vote for Aragorn's way. And special kudos to maxkazar and mkletch for putting it just right.

    What Mark did for me is let me feel again, the way I felt the first time I read "'Well, I'm back,' he said." That surprisingly emotional feeling of wonder, awe and "NO IT CAN'T BE OVER?!". So thanks, Mark.

    As I've grown older, and now handed down the love of Middle Earth to at least one of my children, I've discovered from other background reading why I think I connected with Tolkien. Frodo in the end turns into such a Catholic role model for me.

    "It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them."

    Now, if that cannonize Frodo...Anyway, now with the eyes of a 46 year old who rereads the books once a year since I was 17 its funny how different parts of the book become my favorite as I grow older and change myself.

    Mark I hope at some point can re-read the books for pure enjoyment and appreciation.

    Comment by Ignats75 - January 2, 2003 @ 1:43 PM


  21. One of the more subtle points about the Middle Earth mythos is that immortality as experienced by the Elves and other sentient creatures other than Men is immortality "within the world". The inhabitants of Valinor and the dead who wait in the Halls of Mandos are alike confined to the world, and when Iluvatar ends the world, they will end with it. The Gift to Men is the ability to die in truth and to leave the world.

    This has obvious connections with Christian theology, if one assumes that Men may upon leaving the world dwell with Iluvatar. There is also an interesting parallel with the Buddhist idea of the Wheel of Life, wherein one is reincarnated over and over, as human or god or demon or animal, in the world or heaven or hell or purgatory, and cannot escape rebirth except through Enlightenment, by which one leaves the Wheel.

    From a certain standpoint, immortality is not a gift at all, but a curse. The idea of Hell is inherent in the idea of eternal life unchanging.

    Comment by lemminkainen - January 2, 2003 @ 2:32 PM


  22. One of the more subtle points about the Middle Earth mythos is that immortality as experienced by the Elves and other sentient creatures other than Men is immortality "within the world". The inhabitants of Valinor and the dead who wait in the Halls of Mandos are alike confined to the world, and when Iluvatar ends the world, they will end with it. The Gift to Men is the ability to die in truth and to leave the world.

    This has obvious connections with Christian theology, if one assumes that Men may upon leaving the world dwell with Iluvatar. There is also an interesting parallel with the Buddhist idea of the Wheel of Life, wherein one is reincarnated over and over, as human or god or demon or animal, in the world or heaven or hell or purgatory, and cannot escape rebirth except through Enlightenment, by which one leaves the Wheel.

    From a certain standpoint, immortality is not a gift at all, but a curse. The idea of Hell is inherent in the idea of eternal life unchanging.

    Comment by lemminkainen - January 2, 2003 @ 2:32 PM

  23. Mark.... just wanted to say thanks for the journey.

    I must confess... I was one of those who got (as you say) "pissed off" by some of the things you said in your reading of LOTR. I believe I even sounded off on you at one point.

    Well, while I haven't changed my mind or my opinion, I want to apologize.... just got a little carried away there. You gave your honest impressions of your first (perhaps only) reading... and you have a right to voice whatever thoughts you have. You probably won't win me over... but you were a real trooper to stick it out the distance like you did.

    I wish I had been one of the "encouraging" people. Maybe this will make up for it a little.

    Fare well, and thanks again for all your hard work on behalf of Tolkien appreciation. Was hael!

    Comment by Marea - January 2, 2003 @ 3:14 PM

  24. Mark.... just wanted to say thanks for the journey.

    I must confess... I was one of those who got (as you say) "pissed off" by some of the things you said in your reading of LOTR. I believe I even sounded off on you at one point.

    Well, while I haven't changed my mind or my opinion, I want to apologize.... just got a little carried away there. You gave your honest impressions of your first (perhaps only) reading... and you have a right to voice whatever thoughts you have. You probably won't win me over... but you were a real trooper to stick it out the distance like you did.

    I wish I had been one of the "encouraging" people. Maybe this will make up for it a little.

    Fare well, and thanks again for all your hard work on behalf of Tolkien appreciation. Was hael!

    Comment by Marea - January 2, 2003 @ 3:14 PM

  25. ...for a new Virgin.

    Go get us another!

    Comment by Nice_Smeagol - January 3, 2003 @ 8:14 AM

  26. ...for a new Virgin.

    Go get us another!

    Comment by Nice_Smeagol - January 3, 2003 @ 8:14 AM

  27. Mark-Edmond,

    I'm sorry, but I must now heap praise on you. I say that I'm sorry because, for me, praise is harder to endure than criticism.

    Thank you Mark for your dedication to this project! You are the reason that I stuck with TORC over 2 years ago. I wonder how many other TORC devotees you gathered along the way. Jon and Ted found a huge gift in you, and without you, I doubt that this site would have grown and prospered like it has. In the world of sports, you would be called a franchise player.

    I found it interesting over the the years to see where you had similar reactions and different reactions to mine. Your articles have been a strong illustration of the richness and vastness of Tolkien's work. I am amazed at how LOTR appeals to people of such widely varying backgrounds. In this place, I have met Christians, Moslems, Buddists, Hindus, Athiests, and people of every age, nationality and class who all find something special and compelling in Tolkien's works. I have agreed with many of your opinions and strongly disagreed with others, but I have cherished all of them.

    Like you, I have always had a sense of middle earth continuing beyond the words, and I often ponder what Rivendell or Lothlorien would be like 10 years after the departure of the elves, or 50 years, or 100 years. Would there remain something about those places that bears witness to magical and noble people that inhabited those lands? Would there be some whisper among the trees and streams that tells the tale of the elves that once inhabited them, or would they fade into obscurity -- just another valley and another forest that are indistinguishable from any other?

    I am encouraged that you were so impacted by Frodo's words: "It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them." What an amazing power of literature to move us toward a higher purpose or a higher goal! In the light of 9/11, we see that Frodo's sentiment is alive and well in this world, though often hard to descry.

    Thank you again Mark-Edmond. May your road go ever ever on.

    Comment by GoodSam - January 3, 2003 @ 8:55 AM

  28. Mark-Edmond,

    I'm sorry, but I must now heap praise on you. I say that I'm sorry because, for me, praise is harder to endure than criticism.

    Thank you Mark for your dedication to this project! You are the reason that I stuck with TORC over 2 years ago. I wonder how many other TORC devotees you gathered along the way. Jon and Ted found a huge gift in you, and without you, I doubt that this site would have grown and prospered like it has. In the world of sports, you would be called a franchise player.

    I found it interesting over the the years to see where you had similar reactions and different reactions to mine. Your articles have been a strong illustration of the richness and vastness of Tolkien's work. I am amazed at how LOTR appeals to people of such widely varying backgrounds. In this place, I have met Christians, Moslems, Buddists, Hindus, Athiests, and people of every age, nationality and class who all find something special and compelling in Tolkien's works. I have agreed with many of your opinions and strongly disagreed with others, but I have cherished all of them.

    Like you, I have always had a sense of middle earth continuing beyond the words, and I often ponder what Rivendell or Lothlorien would be like 10 years after the departure of the elves, or 50 years, or 100 years. Would there remain something about those places that bears witness to magical and noble people that inhabited those lands? Would there be some whisper among the trees and streams that tells the tale of the elves that once inhabited them, or would they fade into obscurity -- just another valley and another forest that are indistinguishable from any other?

    I am encouraged that you were so impacted by Frodo's words: "It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them." What an amazing power of literature to move us toward a higher purpose or a higher goal! In the light of 9/11, we see that Frodo's sentiment is alive and well in this world, though often hard to descry.

    Thank you again Mark-Edmond. May your road go ever ever on.

    Comment by GoodSam - January 3, 2003 @ 8:55 AM

  29. If memory serves me, Aragorn was over 300 years old when he chose to die with dignity. Aragorn even says he was given 3 times the lifespan of normal men. That's pretty old! It's not like he died a young man and did not live very many years with Arwen.
    Why linger on and suffer through more years while Arwen stays young and beautiful? He did the right thing...as far as being the proud and noble character that Tolkien made him. And Arwen knew her fate ahead of time.

    Comment by Skybeing - January 3, 2003 @ 9:29 AM

  30. If memory serves me, Aragorn was over 300 years old when he chose to die with dignity. Aragorn even says he was given 3 times the lifespan of normal men. That's pretty old! It's not like he died a young man and did not live very many years with Arwen.
    Why linger on and suffer through more years while Arwen stays young and beautiful? He did the right thing...as far as being the proud and noble character that Tolkien made him. And Arwen knew her fate ahead of time.

    Comment by Skybeing - January 3, 2003 @ 9:29 AM

  31. ok, so maybe elijah is in no way frodo, but sean astin in my mind is sam! and no one could have done elessar better than viggo m. im surprised he didn't mention how wrong orli was for the part. i have nothing against him, i love orlando! (seriously. have yall seen blackhawkdown? magnificent!) and i like ur opinion on the rest of it all. unlike me, however, who has to read the book over and over again, or else i feel empty and cold. yep, i have no life! so, yes, i love sean, i love legolas

    Comment by Lady_Elrondette - January 3, 2003 @ 9:53 AM

  32. ok, so maybe elijah is in no way frodo, but sean astin in my mind is sam! and no one could have done elessar better than viggo m. im surprised he didn't mention how wrong orli was for the part. i have nothing against him, i love orlando! (seriously. have yall seen blackhawkdown? magnificent!) and i like ur opinion on the rest of it all. unlike me, however, who has to read the book over and over again, or else i feel empty and cold. yep, i have no life! so, yes, i love sean, i love legolas

    Comment by Lady_Elrondette - January 3, 2003 @ 9:53 AM

  33. Mark-Edmond Howell,

    I've really enjoyed your adventure in Middle Earth. I will miss your comments and I hope you had fun. You may now join the ranks of self appointed Tolkien efficianados.

    I can't believe it's been three years.

    Bring us another virgin and we'll start from the top.

    Comment by woodley - January 3, 2003 @ 12:22 PM

  34. Mark-Edmond Howell,

    I've really enjoyed your adventure in Middle Earth. I will miss your comments and I hope you had fun. You may now join the ranks of self appointed Tolkien efficianados.

    I can't believe it's been three years.

    Bring us another virgin and we'll start from the top.

    Comment by woodley - January 3, 2003 @ 12:22 PM

  35. I too was upset the first time I read the appendices and came across the part concerning Aragorn's manner of death. It smacked too much of suicide and euthanasia. However, some of my friends pointed out to me after the fact that one of the primary things we God-fearing folk consider wrong about suicide is that it is an action we have no right to take: effectively stealing our lives from the One who has rightful charge of them. They further pointed out that in Tolkien's Middle-Earth, it is specifically mentioned that Aragorn, as one of the great kings, was given the ability to chose the time of his death. Thus, at least, he was within his rights... And I agree with most of the previous posts about the fittingness of his choice to die when he did, and not clinging graspingly to life to the detriment of all else.

    Comment by NotchedAxe - January 3, 2003 @ 2:03 PM

  36. I too was upset the first time I read the appendices and came across the part concerning Aragorn's manner of death. It smacked too much of suicide and euthanasia. However, some of my friends pointed out to me after the fact that one of the primary things we God-fearing folk consider wrong about suicide is that it is an action we have no right to take: effectively stealing our lives from the One who has rightful charge of them. They further pointed out that in Tolkien's Middle-Earth, it is specifically mentioned that Aragorn, as one of the great kings, was given the ability to chose the time of his death. Thus, at least, he was within his rights... And I agree with most of the previous posts about the fittingness of his choice to die when he did, and not clinging graspingly to life to the detriment of all else.

    Comment by NotchedAxe - January 3, 2003 @ 2:03 PM

  37. I am glad to see that NotchedAxe noticed the possible but false connection that one could draw between aragorn's choice and suicide or euthanasia. Knowing Tolkien, however, we know that this cannot be the case, so rather than that, I see that as the kings of Numenor can chose the time of their deaths, this is rather a reference to understanding death in a more natural manner, a manner that rejoices and does not detract at all from the value of the present life and at the same time is mindful that it must come to an end to give way to a more fuller state of existence. The kings of Numenor are given such a choice because they are handed the resposibility of judging when their task in the world has come to an end, something that as we all know, not all of them handle in the best possible manner.

    Comment by Gilaure - January 3, 2003 @ 11:59 PM

  38. I am glad to see that NotchedAxe noticed the possible but false connection that one could draw between aragorn's choice and suicide or euthanasia. Knowing Tolkien, however, we know that this cannot be the case, so rather than that, I see that as the kings of Numenor can chose the time of their deaths, this is rather a reference to understanding death in a more natural manner, a manner that rejoices and does not detract at all from the value of the present life and at the same time is mindful that it must come to an end to give way to a more fuller state of existence. The kings of Numenor are given such a choice because they are handed the resposibility of judging when their task in the world has come to an end, something that as we all know, not all of them handle in the best possible manner.

    Comment by Gilaure - January 3, 2003 @ 11:59 PM

  39. If memory serves me correctly, Aragorn was approximatly 210 when he died. I must have talked over this issue a million times with my Tolkien Virgin friends. However, the comment 'while Arwen stayed young and beautiful' (or words to that effect), bring up a question. In the Appendices, Tolkien states that after her marraige, Arwen 'became as a mortal woman'. Would this mean that she would age or would she hold on to that Elven privilige?

    Comment by elf_maiden_arwen - January 4, 2003 @ 8:01 AM

  40. If memory serves me correctly, Aragorn was approximatly 210 when he died. I must have talked over this issue a million times with my Tolkien Virgin friends. However, the comment 'while Arwen stayed young and beautiful' (or words to that effect), bring up a question. In the Appendices, Tolkien states that after her marraige, Arwen 'became as a mortal woman'. Would this mean that she would age or would she hold on to that Elven privilige?

    Comment by elf_maiden_arwen - January 4, 2003 @ 8:01 AM

  41. I agree with Mark on the fact that it sucked that Frodo couldn't stay to enjoy what he had worked so hard for.....his leaving kinda ruined the end for me.........................

    Also, I think the casting for the movies has been almost perfectly as i had envisioned, except for Elrond. I was a fan of the Matrix way before the LOTR
    movies started to come out, and every time I see
    him in LOTR, I think "you are the agent. you are the bad guy. i don't like you!!!"

    And also, I HATE that PJ changed TTT so much!!!!!
    Not Fair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by BookWorm88 - January 5, 2003 @ 10:02 AM

  42. I agree with Mark on the fact that it sucked that Frodo couldn't stay to enjoy what he had worked so hard for.....his leaving kinda ruined the end for me.........................

    Also, I think the casting for the movies has been almost perfectly as i had envisioned, except for Elrond. I was a fan of the Matrix way before the LOTR
    movies started to come out, and every time I see
    him in LOTR, I think "you are the agent. you are the bad guy. i don't like you!!!"

    And also, I HATE that PJ changed TTT so much!!!!!
    Not Fair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by BookWorm88 - January 5, 2003 @ 10:02 AM

  43. These sure were great reviews. I know it must have took so much time and effort, and I agree with most of it in this article.

    However, no matter how much I learn, I do not like the end. It is too heart-breaking and makes my efforts of siting still and reading wasted. I think some of it was a little illogical, and some more explanations are needed. I need everything settled, adn all questions answered. I think Tolkien should have written more about life of those who sailed into the West at the end. The characters should also be able to stay in touch, as we do in real life.

    I think Aragorn naturally aged and died. He didn't have a choice. It was the end for him, and I thought it ordinary, just like other humans: die of old age. It was nice of him to ask Arwen to repent and sail West.

    I agree that the movie didn't do justice to the books.

    Comment by fishy071 - January 5, 2003 @ 9:33 PM

  44. These sure were great reviews. I know it must have took so much time and effort, and I agree with most of it in this article.

    However, no matter how much I learn, I do not like the end. It is too heart-breaking and makes my efforts of siting still and reading wasted. I think some of it was a little illogical, and some more explanations are needed. I need everything settled, adn all questions answered. I think Tolkien should have written more about life of those who sailed into the West at the end. The characters should also be able to stay in touch, as we do in real life.

    I think Aragorn naturally aged and died. He didn't have a choice. It was the end for him, and I thought it ordinary, just like other humans: die of old age. It was nice of him to ask Arwen to repent and sail West.

    I agree that the movie didn't do justice to the books.

    Comment by fishy071 - January 5, 2003 @ 9:33 PM

  45. Hi.
    Just wanted to say that I agree with you in the matter of Kate Blanchett. She is not Galadriel. I was very disappointed when I saw the movie.

    Comment by Skyggefaxe - January 6, 2003 @ 3:37 AM

  46. Hi.
    Just wanted to say that I agree with you in the matter of Kate Blanchett. She is not Galadriel. I was very disappointed when I saw the movie.

    Comment by Skyggefaxe - January 6, 2003 @ 3:37 AM

  47. one more...

    Neither Elron is what I thought him to be!

    Comment by Skyggefaxe - January 6, 2003 @ 3:38 AM

  48. one more...

    Neither Elron is what I thought him to be!

    Comment by Skyggefaxe - January 6, 2003 @ 3:38 AM

  49. Mark-Edmund, I really appreciate the effort that you have put into these reviews. While I did not agree with everything that you said over these three years, I appreciated your viewpoint.
    This last review I agree with you on most things. That statement by Sam at the end of everything is perhaps the most perfect ending to a book. It is more than an ending, it points the way for your imagination to go on.
    Thank you for all your thoughts. Have fun re-reading!

    Comment by PstTBG - January 6, 2003 @ 7:40 AM

  50. Mark-Edmund, I really appreciate the effort that you have put into these reviews. While I did not agree with everything that you said over these three years, I appreciated your viewpoint.
    This last review I agree with you on most things. That statement by Sam at the end of everything is perhaps the most perfect ending to a book. It is more than an ending, it points the way for your imagination to go on.
    Thank you for all your thoughts. Have fun re-reading!

    Comment by PstTBG - January 6, 2003 @ 7:40 AM

  51. Thanks, Mark-Edmond.

    I didn't agree with every word you wrote, but you always were able to get me to think, often in new ways.

    Many times you were able to cause me to re-experience the same joy and wonder that I felt the first time I read the books.

    Again, thanks. I know that it wasn't always easy, but you did it anyway. You da man.

    Comment by chendry - January 7, 2003 @ 1:31 PM

  52. Thanks, Mark-Edmond.

    I didn't agree with every word you wrote, but you always were able to get me to think, often in new ways.

    Many times you were able to cause me to re-experience the same joy and wonder that I felt the first time I read the books.

    Again, thanks. I know that it wasn't always easy, but you did it anyway. You da man.

    Comment by chendry - January 7, 2003 @ 1:31 PM

  53. I just want to say I was one of those who stayed in TORC due to the Tolkien Virgin reviews. I’m certain that I’m going to miss this articles a lot.

    Comment by RoRo - January 8, 2003 @ 8:12 AM

  54. I just want to say I was one of those who stayed in TORC due to the Tolkien Virgin reviews. I’m certain that I’m going to miss this articles a lot.

    Comment by RoRo - January 8, 2003 @ 8:12 AM

  55. I remember very clearly the first time I finished Lord of the Rings. I felt a deep, intense sense of loss. yearning, mourning... I had not read the Silmirillion (yet) and did not understand all the Valar/Valinor references, but could garner that the place Frodo et al were going to was a better place. Finishing the book made me feel empty, like I had lost all the friends I'd made along the way. I was leaving Middle Earth (not like Frodo), and I didn't want to.

    Reading the Appendices later on eased my sense of loss. I can only imagine the reunions in Valinor, supposing Frodo hadn't died by then. I was very pleased to hear that Gimli sailed with Legolas. It was very fitting.

    I am rather pleased with the movies, though I am unhappy with Jackson's portrayal of Faramir. So much for "the air of Numenor" about him. I am less pleased with TTT than FotR, but then again, to truly bring each book to the big screen would require a 5-hour movie, and probably only hard-core fans like us could endure (endure? Revel!) in that. I only hope he gives the Scouring of the Shire all the attention it deserves. Its one of the most telling chapters in the whole book.

    And while I was hesitant about Elijah Wood as Frodo (has everyone forgotten that Hobbits are heavy-set?!), I feel he has done an absolutely phenomenol job. The torment and horror in his eyes perfectly conveys what Frodo is going through. Great job. I'm pretty happy with all the casting and must point out that no actor could ever portray Galadriel or Arwen as they appear in the books. Because they're human. But Liv Tyler does an excellent job and I have trouble remembering she's not actually an Elf.

    So Mark, I enjoyed your articles. Thank you for the journey. I too, thought I wouldn't re-read LotR. You can guess what happened.

    All blessings.

    Comment by scourgicus - January 11, 2003 @ 8:46 AM

  56. I remember very clearly the first time I finished Lord of the Rings. I felt a deep, intense sense of loss. yearning, mourning... I had not read the Silmirillion (yet) and did not understand all the Valar/Valinor references, but could garner that the place Frodo et al were going to was a better place. Finishing the book made me feel empty, like I had lost all the friends I'd made along the way. I was leaving Middle Earth (not like Frodo), and I didn't want to.

    Reading the Appendices later on eased my sense of loss. I can only imagine the reunions in Valinor, supposing Frodo hadn't died by then. I was very pleased to hear that Gimli sailed with Legolas. It was very fitting.

    I am rather pleased with the movies, though I am unhappy with Jackson's portrayal of Faramir. So much for "the air of Numenor" about him. I am less pleased with TTT than FotR, but then again, to truly bring each book to the big screen would require a 5-hour movie, and probably only hard-core fans like us could endure (endure? Revel!) in that. I only hope he gives the Scouring of the Shire all the attention it deserves. Its one of the most telling chapters in the whole book.

    And while I was hesitant about Elijah Wood as Frodo (has everyone forgotten that Hobbits are heavy-set?!), I feel he has done an absolutely phenomenol job. The torment and horror in his eyes perfectly conveys what Frodo is going through. Great job. I'm pretty happy with all the casting and must point out that no actor could ever portray Galadriel or Arwen as they appear in the books. Because they're human. But Liv Tyler does an excellent job and I have trouble remembering she's not actually an Elf.

    So Mark, I enjoyed your articles. Thank you for the journey. I too, thought I wouldn't re-read LotR. You can guess what happened.

    All blessings.

    Comment by scourgicus - January 11, 2003 @ 8:46 AM

  57. I can't believe this. I've been here a year and I just stumbled across this wonderful series of reviews only yesterday!!! I only go into Books and a couple of other Forums, and I wonder if there are newbies there who might also profit from this Reading Room: A Tolkien Virgin.


    I'll have lots of catching up to do.

    yours,
    greenleaf

    Comment by greenleafwood - January 14, 2003 @ 1:52 PM

  58. I can't believe this. I've been here a year and I just stumbled across this wonderful series of reviews only yesterday!!! I only go into Books and a couple of other Forums, and I wonder if there are newbies there who might also profit from this Reading Room: A Tolkien Virgin.


    I'll have lots of catching up to do.

    yours,
    greenleaf

    Comment by greenleafwood - January 14, 2003 @ 1:52 PM

  59. Your reviews for the books were wonderful and very insightful, but I have a few nits to pick at with your deal with the movie. I'm going to probably get shot for saying this, but cut the movie makers a bit of slack! I mean, the book is FICTION! It never happened! Elijah Wood will never be Frodo Baggins, because he was BORN Elijah Wood! Plus, being a FICTION BOOK, your views on what the characters should look like and Peter Jackson's views are going to contrast exceedingly! I mean, c'mon, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see this! Your reviews for the books were great, but, honestly, it's fiction! Give P.J. and Co. a bit of a break. From what they've done, they think that they've done the book well. And if they DID include EVERYTHING from the book, it'd take a week to watch! I mean, I'm a fanatic for the book, too, but last I checked, we didn't live in Middle-Earth. Some of us need to sleep and eat and get on with our lives...it's just a cool book and a nice movie!

    Comment by Ainariel - January 15, 2003 @ 3:18 PM

  60. Your reviews for the books were wonderful and very insightful, but I have a few nits to pick at with your deal with the movie. I'm going to probably get shot for saying this, but cut the movie makers a bit of slack! I mean, the book is FICTION! It never happened! Elijah Wood will never be Frodo Baggins, because he was BORN Elijah Wood! Plus, being a FICTION BOOK, your views on what the characters should look like and Peter Jackson's views are going to contrast exceedingly! I mean, c'mon, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see this! Your reviews for the books were great, but, honestly, it's fiction! Give P.J. and Co. a bit of a break. From what they've done, they think that they've done the book well. And if they DID include EVERYTHING from the book, it'd take a week to watch! I mean, I'm a fanatic for the book, too, but last I checked, we didn't live in Middle-Earth. Some of us need to sleep and eat and get on with our lives...it's just a cool book and a nice movie!

    Comment by Ainariel - January 15, 2003 @ 3:18 PM

  61. I can only imagine the time spent taking notes and reading, the re-reading sections of the book and it seems Tolkien has inpired yet another person. A job well done.

    Greyhame

    Comment by Greyhame - January 15, 2003 @ 3:28 PM

  62. I can only imagine the time spent taking notes and reading, the re-reading sections of the book and it seems Tolkien has inpired yet another person. A job well done.

    Greyhame

    Comment by Greyhame - January 15, 2003 @ 3:28 PM

  63. Like GoodSam, I too was attracted to TORC by the Tolkien Virgin articles and kept coming back for them - then I discovered the Messageboard and I've been there ever since.

    Anyway, when I first read these articles I'd just finished the books days before. It was quite interesting to read someone else's first impressions on the book and quite enlightening.

    Thank you very much for your dedication and hard work! ((HUGS))

    Comment by Harvestar - January 16, 2003 @ 9:51 PM

  64. Like GoodSam, I too was attracted to TORC by the Tolkien Virgin articles and kept coming back for them - then I discovered the Messageboard and I've been there ever since.

    Anyway, when I first read these articles I'd just finished the books days before. It was quite interesting to read someone else's first impressions on the book and quite enlightening.

    Thank you very much for your dedication and hard work! ((HUGS))

    Comment by Harvestar - January 16, 2003 @ 9:51 PM

  65. I discovered your articles just yesterday and have read them all in one go (I think I was online for about 8-10 hours)! thank you for taking me along it was a great experience.

    just have to add the following regarding poor frodo:

    I do not think that being finally defeated in a fight that was beyond your strength from the very beginning means to have failed. taking up this task at all without any hope of succeeding from the very start seems to be truly heroic in my eyes. had I have to bear the ring I would be lying dead in a ditch rolled into a fetal position somewhere in Ithilien by now.

    Comment by kete - January 19, 2003 @ 10:25 AM

  66. I discovered your articles just yesterday and have read them all in one go (I think I was online for about 8-10 hours)! thank you for taking me along it was a great experience.

    just have to add the following regarding poor frodo:

    I do not think that being finally defeated in a fight that was beyond your strength from the very beginning means to have failed. taking up this task at all without any hope of succeeding from the very start seems to be truly heroic in my eyes. had I have to bear the ring I would be lying dead in a ditch rolled into a fetal position somewhere in Ithilien by now.

    Comment by kete - January 19, 2003 @ 10:25 AM

  67. Tolkien is absolotely billant!

    Comment by Nilandra - January 27, 2003 @ 4:24 PM

  68. Tolkien is absolotely billant!

    Comment by Nilandra - January 27, 2003 @ 4:24 PM

  69. I’m new to TORC and LotR, having only become obsessed in September 2002. One of the advantages of finding TORC only a few months ago is that I’ve been able to go into The Reading Room and read a full story without having to wait for each chapter, and I was able to read all of A Tolkien Virgin. I think I would have gone crazy waiting for the reviews (as some people have posted) if I had been reading from the start.

    I fully intend to re-read the books (with the coming of the first frost of Autumn) and I’ve printed out all of the A Tolkien Virgin articles to read along with the books. I was happy to see others posting they were planning on doing the same—it’s always good to see others are thinking the same as me—makes me feel like my obsession is ok.

    I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading all the reviews and comments. Sometimes they’ve mirrored my own and sometimes they’ve brought up insights and thoughts I didn’t even think of. I can’t wait to re-read the books with those comments in hand.


    Comment by LegolasLoverA37 - January 29, 2003 @ 4:24 PM

  70. I’m new to TORC and LotR, having only become obsessed in September 2002. One of the advantages of finding TORC only a few months ago is that I’ve been able to go into The Reading Room and read a full story without having to wait for each chapter, and I was able to read all of A Tolkien Virgin. I think I would have gone crazy waiting for the reviews (as some people have posted) if I had been reading from the start.

    I fully intend to re-read the books (with the coming of the first frost of Autumn) and I’ve printed out all of the A Tolkien Virgin articles to read along with the books. I was happy to see others posting they were planning on doing the same—it’s always good to see others are thinking the same as me—makes me feel like my obsession is ok.

    I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading all the reviews and comments. Sometimes they’ve mirrored my own and sometimes they’ve brought up insights and thoughts I didn’t even think of. I can’t wait to re-read the books with those comments in hand.


    Comment by LegolasLoverA37 - January 29, 2003 @ 4:24 PM

  71. I'm new to TORC and LotR, having only become obsessed in September 2002. One of the advantages of finding TORC only a few months ago is that I've been able to go into The Reading Room and read a full story without having to wait for each chapter, and I was able to read all of A Tolkien Virgin. I think I would have gone crazy waiting for the reviews (as some people have posted) if I had been reading from the start.

    I fully intend to re-read the books (with the coming of the first frost of Autumn) and I've printed out all of the A Tolkien Virgin articles to read along with the books. I was happy to see others posting they were planning on doing the same--it's always good to see others are thinking the same as me--makes me feel like my obsession is ok.

    I've thoroughly enjoyed reading all the reviews and comments. Sometimes they've mirrored my own and sometimes they've brought up insights and thoughts I didn't even think of. I can't wait to re-read the books with those comments in hand.

    Comment by LegolasLoverA37 - January 29, 2003 @ 4:35 PM

  72. I'm new to TORC and LotR, having only become obsessed in September 2002. One of the advantages of finding TORC only a few months ago is that I've been able to go into The Reading Room and read a full story without having to wait for each chapter, and I was able to read all of A Tolkien Virgin. I think I would have gone crazy waiting for the reviews (as some people have posted) if I had been reading from the start.

    I fully intend to re-read the books (with the coming of the first frost of Autumn) and I've printed out all of the A Tolkien Virgin articles to read along with the books. I was happy to see others posting they were planning on doing the same--it's always good to see others are thinking the same as me--makes me feel like my obsession is ok.

    I've thoroughly enjoyed reading all the reviews and comments. Sometimes they've mirrored my own and sometimes they've brought up insights and thoughts I didn't even think of. I can't wait to re-read the books with those comments in hand.

    Comment by LegolasLoverA37 - January 29, 2003 @ 4:35 PM

  73. On the whole your Tolkien Virgin was pretty good, but I disagree with your rating of Aragorn. Arwen wanted him to stay, but he couldn't stay, because if he did, he would go into decline, which would be more painful for her, and he would die anyway. Arwen just didn't know because she never saw anyone die before-die of age, I mean.

    Comment by Celebelen - April 23, 2003 @ 9:17 PM

  74. On the whole your Tolkien Virgin was pretty good, but I disagree with your rating of Aragorn. Arwen wanted him to stay, but he couldn't stay, because if he did, he would go into decline, which would be more painful for her, and he would die anyway. Arwen just didn't know because she never saw anyone die before-die of age, I mean.

    Comment by Celebelen - April 23, 2003 @ 9:17 PM

  75. I THINK THAT THE NAMES ARE NOT BAD,BUT THEY ARE LITLE FUNNY.
    BUT YOU'RE THE BEST OF THE BEST.

    Comment by smaugh - August 1, 2003 @ 4:02 AM

  76. I THINK THAT THE NAMES ARE NOT BAD,BUT THEY ARE LITLE FUNNY.
    BUT YOU'RE THE BEST OF THE BEST.

    Comment by smaugh - August 1, 2003 @ 4:02 AM

  77. BOOK IS ABOUT A DAVILONS.BOOK IS INSPIRATION
    OF THE HOBBIT.IT IS NOT A THE SIMILAR.
    THIS IS NOT A COPY AND NOT A COMENT



    P.S.
    WE JUST WHONT TO EWERY WHON KNOW FOR AS BOOK

    Comment by smaugh - August 1, 2003 @ 4:13 AM

  78. BOOK IS ABOUT A DAVILONS.BOOK IS INSPIRATION
    OF THE HOBBIT.IT IS NOT A THE SIMILAR.
    THIS IS NOT A COPY AND NOT A COMENT



    P.S.
    WE JUST WHONT TO EWERY WHON KNOW FOR AS BOOK

    Comment by smaugh - August 1, 2003 @ 4:13 AM







  79. SORY,SORY,SORY,WE ARE FROM SERBIJA.
    WE ARE JUST MILE AND ZURKE

    Comment by smaugh - August 1, 2003 @ 4:16 AM







  80. SORY,SORY,SORY,WE ARE FROM SERBIJA.
    WE ARE JUST MILE AND ZURKE

    Comment by smaugh - August 1, 2003 @ 4:16 AM

  81. For takeing on this task and reporting to eveyrone your feels. I first read the books in 1971. Unlike you, I felt the need to reread them almost at once. So, I have done a complete reread once ever two years ever since than. To this day a new re-read still exposes something new and wonderfull, the world Tolken created has only one par, that is our own. For me there is only one set of books that I read more often and that is on a continueing bases, that being the Bible. If I may, being a garled old timer give one bit of advise to you. Wait a bit. but than definitly do a reread. You will be amazed at the different things you focus on and so the different takes you will get on parts of this history. Again, thanks for the buggy ride, it was enjoyable to watch a virgin discovering these great works for the first time.

    Comment by danceingbear - September 26, 2003 @ 12:38 PM

  82. Comment by Lady Elwen - March 12, 2007 @ 2:09 PM

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    Comment by SetMaster - June 18, 2007 @ 7:35 PM

  84. this story is awesome.. the hobbit and the lord of the rings its like thesame.. i love this story so much.... its fantastic and its funny..
    hahhaaahahhah! ^_^

    Comment by Jana - March 17, 2009 @ 7:19 PM

  85. this story is awesome.. the hobbit and the lord of the rings its like the same.. i love this story so much.... its fantastic and its funny..
    hahhaaahahhah! ^_^

    Comment by Jana - March 17, 2009 @ 7:19 PM

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