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I Am Woman, Hear Me Think

January 20, 2004
Submitted By ErinRua

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One might assume that, in a story so full of swords, warriors, epic battles and heroic last stands as Tolkien's "The Lord of the Rings," men would be the dominant fan base. However, the truth is, they are not. If one takes a cursory surf of websites it quickly becomes apparent that women rule the Internet realm of "The Lord of the Rings," and the spectrum ranges from giddy fan girls to scholarly analysis. Site-orientations can vary from gleeful gushing over "Orli," (everyone's favorite British elf) to forums housing protracted conversations over the construction of elven bows or how Sindar and Noldor elves viewed each other. But why are so few men in evidence?

Good question. My first and foremost guess is simple. I believe most guys are just not inclined to look for Internet communities in which to discuss their favorite books or movies. My husband loves "The Lord of the Rings" as movies. But while he is happy to tell you that he thinks the Rohirrim are magnificent, or that Gimli is one tough little dude, he is not about to sit down and spend thirty minutes typing up a post elaborating his thoughts. Perhaps things so ambiguous as the thought, intent, or symbolism of books and movies are more frequently something that women enjoy talking about. Not that men do not also have thoughts on such matters, but perhaps they are less likely to turn to the Internet for the intangibles of a book or movie. Or perhaps most men simply do not feel inclined to debate such things ad infinitum.

If you look to the nuts and bolts of "The Lord of the Rings" movies, the guys are most definitely present. Medieval reenactors' sites discuss the depictions of warfare and costuming, edged-weapons sites discuss the swords and swordsmanship, archery sites pick apart the archery and use of archers, and some martial arts sites might even pay attention to Legolas' fighting style. So the guys are out there. Perhaps they simply are not hanging out in the same places as the ladies. Or perhaps they do not choose to speak up in a general Internet forum.

Of course women are wowed by the visuals Peter Jackson's movies have given us. The scenery is stunning, the costuming is magnificent, the background and settings are lush with delicious details, and yeah, there are some incredibly handsome faces up there on the screen, Elf, Hobbit and Man. But is that the only reason we are here, because Jackson made Middle Earth look like a great place to take a holiday? Heck no!

We are here because our souls have been touched. We embrace our Internet communities because we want that interaction, we thrive on exchanges of thoughts, debates of ideas and dissections of what a scene or character was really about. There is a very real passion that appears in discussions of Tolkien's beloved works and the movies, and which often awakens arguments powerful enough for any college forum. Are we women simply more gregarious creatures than our male counterparts? Is there something innate in our psychological makeup, which lends us to flocking together to ponder whether or not Elrond's half-elven sons chose to sail into the West? I do not know.

Personally, I am not a woman who gangs around with a lot of other ladies. I am drawn to dogs, horses and other outdoorsy things. But I cannot deny that I am equally drawn to the society, the companionship, the very special fellowship that lives within our online Lord of the Rings communities. There is something magical that happens here. There is reason that people will travel across countries and even oceans to attend Lord of the Rings gatherings with people whom they have never met in person. There is something majestic and wonderful and timeless in Tolkien's epic that calls to the heart and soul and brings us together. What Peter Jackson's movies did was throw open the doors connecting our many nations, and lay a road between us.

Women are here in the Lord of the Rings fandom because we look up at the stars at night and think, "What if?" Women are here because we were swept away to a place so richly alive that it is hard to imagine it never really existed. Women are here because Tolkien gave us a realm where oaths matter and honor is real, and which we begin to realize is something we can take unto ourselves. Women are here because, in this story, something profound is touched and moved, and it cries out for expression. Peter Jackson simply had the wherewithal to share with us his own, very powerful, expression.

We are here, all of us, because in the books and on the screen we see more than epic battles and heroic deeds. We see metaphors for all that is good and grand and wonderful in this grubby old world of ours. It reminds us that we, too, can find hope in the darkest of times and aspire to our own nobility of spirit, just as did Sam Gamgee, a simple hobbit of the Shire. We are here ... because we dream. And that is something that J.R.R. Tolkien bequeathed to us all, man, woman and child.

ErinRua
Nevada, USA

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... 32 Comments

  1. You are a really good writer. I loved the big words! Tolkien used big words too. I agree that males do not tend to spend a long time typing thier thoughts when there are games to be played on the internet. Or other stuff more worthwhile to them. Females are really kind of screwed up in that sense that they are willing to spend over an hour just having a disscussion about inconsiquential things.

    Comment by sila555 - January 20, 2004 @ 2:16 PM

  2. My dear Sila, not a single female I know is willing to spend an hour discussing inconsiquential things; we spend so much time on Rings because it means something to us, because it's had an effect on our lives! And if that, m'dear, is inconsiquential, then I believe that everything I've ever loved is just as meaningless. Turning back to the essay...

    I have surprisingly little tolerance for Fangirls. Most of them are my age or a little older, but I just find them tiresome. Swoon all you like, that doesn't mean you comprehend the meaningful messages BEHIND the hot guys.

    It does seem, though, that some of the true, die-hard, unfaltering Rings fans are male, though. Look at Johnathan! I do see your point, of course. Take a peep around the Reading Room, you'll not see many men...

    Ah, I'm babbling. Well done, impressive, the way you so clearly conveyed your thoughts and stuck to your main point. Excellent.

    Comment by Ms_Gamgee_89 - January 20, 2004 @ 3:43 PM

  3. I think you are absolutely and completely right about everything you say! Me and my friends are always talking about the Lord of the Rings. I am a fangirl, but I love everything about the book. If I couldn't give Legolas a face, I'd still be in love LotR.

    I just wanted to say that when you talk about how people believe women watch the Lord of the Rings because of the eye-candy, which is sometimes true, people should look at it from the other direction too. If the Lord of the Rings had a dominantly female cast, chances are the roles would be completely reversed! If they were in our place, men would be going to see LotR purely to look up at those faces on the big screen.

    Comment by storybook_elf - January 20, 2004 @ 3:57 PM

  4. You have articulated what I believe many women think and feel.

    While I did not care for the movies, the book has been part of my life for nearly forty years.

    The epic tale, the masterful use of English, the characters I have come to love, are more important to me than a "mere book". They are not, most assuredly not, "inconsequential".

    LOTR is beautiful, and women, no less than men, are drawn to beauty. The beauty of LOTR moves us to speak, moves us to tears, moves us to write.

    We write, we muse, we create tales of our own. We discuss, argue, cogitate......and visit websites such as this.

    Comment by vison - January 20, 2004 @ 3:58 PM

  5. ...And not to mention well written! I agree. I love just how deeply you desribed our passion for this story filled with messages of hope and perserverance for everything good in this world. Thank you so much for writing this.

    Comment by *Evenstar - January 20, 2004 @ 4:48 PM

  6. I have loved LOTR since I read the books in 1969. I was a girl then, and am a woman now, and like my mother and sister (and daughters!) love the books. I love the films, too!

    Anyone who thinks LOTR (books or films) are "guy stories" does not know women.

    Comment by Elmtree - January 20, 2004 @ 7:30 PM

  7. I very much agree with what you have to say. Males and females are different, and express their emotions and interests in different ways. There's nothing wrong with that.

    And like Ms_Gamgee_89, I also have a low tolerance for fangirls, though I do have friends and siblings who fit into that category. I would only watch TTT with my sister on the condition that she kept her mouth shut whenever Legolas came onscreen, and I made sure I was sitting between my dad & brother at ROTK to avoid her and my stepsisters' swoonings.

    And yet with such fangirls running rampant, I don't see how anyone could say the movies have -no- appeal to women. But no one becomes a true fan because of a pretty face, and you really don't have to go very far to find a woman who appreciates the story as well as the inspired visuals.

    Comment by Eyriel - January 20, 2004 @ 10:26 PM

  8. Who was it that said, "What oft was thought, but ne'er so well expressed?"

    Well, whoever it was, you hit that proverbial nail right on the head!
    I would have to say that I respectfully disagree with sila555 in that I do not think women discuss "inconsequential" things any more than men do, but our personality types in general, are more comfortable using the internet as a medium to discuss whatever we prefer to. Which I believe you mentioned, ErinRua.

    Comment by Lalaith-Elerrina - January 21, 2004 @ 7:08 AM

  9. I discuss LOTR stuff with friends in cafeterias or in the lunch breaks at work, I can wiew sites like this some times but never visit a convention, ever!!

    Comment by !!!Tom!!! - January 21, 2004 @ 12:30 PM

  10. I really have nothing else to say except that I am blown away at how accurately my feelings were torn from me and laid out for all to understand. I give you a standing ovation, ErinRua!

    Comment by Ranewen_The_Pink - January 21, 2004 @ 2:09 PM

  11. I was talking to my grandmother, who is pushing 85, and the connection we had over Tolkien's work was amazing.

    When was the last time you had an hour long conversation with your GRANDMOTHER???

    As a somewhat purist, the fact that she was quoting the books and right there with me when I started talking about Cirdan and the havens.... was mindblowing. I was shocked, to tell you the truth, but I love the fact that now we have something talk about and discuss.

    This article rocked hard core.

    Levanna

    Comment by Levanna - January 21, 2004 @ 8:09 PM

  12. Women are here because we were swept away to a place so richly alive that it is hard to imagine it never really existed.

    Ah, yes. That brought a tear to my eye.

    My niece, my cousin and my mother are all now rabid Tolkien fans, and that's due to the movies - specifically, The Return of the King. For geeky boys only? *Snort!*

    Comment by Scarlet - January 22, 2004 @ 4:30 AM

  13. Bravo ErinRua! Well and beautifully said!

    I'm no longer a "girl" by any stretch of the imagination, but I was one when I discovered the books...which I read through adolescence into young adulthood, into the years of my marriage, motherhood... and now as I'm entering midlife....

    Know what? These books served as my comfort, entertainment, companionship.... they helped develop my conscience (I will just as often hear the words of Gandalf in my mind pointing me to the right path on some thorny ethical choice as I will the voice my parents or my pastor...) These books have grown with me... the characters have become old friends, the story continues to enlighten and inspire and unfold further as I grow in life. Bag End has become a familiar place to me... a second home as it were.

    For me, the movie ruined nothing, only disappointed me a bit (Faramir, etc) and brought much to life that was only dimly imagined before. I am grateful for them.

    Does any of this have anything to do with me being female? Would my experience of the books/movie have been different... whether more superficial or less... hilighting different aspects perhaps? I don't know. My husband loves the books for the honor and the glory of them and the books for the grand design of the world and the pathos... but he loves both for the poetry that is evident in each.

    Don't know....doesn't sound too different than the reactions of many women I know. Maybe the point really should be that with respect to a tale for the ages or symbolic epic story like LOTR gender just doesn't matter.

    Comment by Marea - January 22, 2004 @ 7:01 PM

  14. I'd like to add some words of praise for Peter Jackson, who chose to portray the female characters as strong, independent personalities. I loved his treatment of Arwen, Galadriel, and Eowyn. The action scenes intrigued me and i'll never forget them.

    Thanks for expressing the thoughts so eloquently. Best regards - Chathol-linn

    Comment by Chathol-linn - January 22, 2004 @ 7:11 PM

  15. Absolutely! The idea that because you're a woman you can't be interested in a tale about courage, sacrifice, good and evil, standing up and fighting in order that everything you love should survive - it's a blatantly stupid idea. Not to mention insulting. What has LotR got to do with gender? Nothing - in the country of the mind we are all equal.

    Well said! Very well said indeed

    Comment by Galadir - January 23, 2004 @ 2:02 AM

  16. I am sending this paragraph to my sister, who just moved to Taiwan.

    the last paragraph made my eyes water.

    Comment by feanorean - January 23, 2004 @ 9:52 AM

  17. Your writing is wonderful! You have expressed everything that I feel in regards to both the movies and the books! It is encouraging to know that there are others, besides myself, who live the emotions that Tolkien's works expresses. Best of luck!

    Comment by whereismysam - January 23, 2004 @ 12:45 PM

  18. Thanks so very much for saying this... living in a totally LotR insane family I don't have to pick up the "you are nuts" end of it very often--except for school of course--but you've covered it and its so right. So, um, (grins again) nicely done, it includes all of the right rational... reasonable arguments and emotion...

    you get the point

    Comment by atheshar - January 24, 2004 @ 5:15 PM

  19. Great! That's true, but, uh, just know that guys like to dream too! Sure, we are tempted by video games ("The controller must be destroyed" ) but I do want to butt in and make a little argument. It was beautiful and a wonderful praise, but ye must allow it for guys too. I always hate it when the general public is always siding with girls! Like, they put "girl power" in the dictionary as "a metaphor for self-esteem to younggirls" or something lik that. Argh!!! It just seems that while empowering girls sometimes real fanatics inflate them above guys. Not that you did so, it was so nicely said, but I want to add my two cents that guys can like the deep stuff also.

    Comment by Maer-Manadh - January 26, 2004 @ 7:29 AM

  20. Nice piece of information about yourself and the ideas you have on women and the Lord of the Rings.

    I agree with Ms_Gamgee_89 and Eyriel about the "fangirls", however, they do have their place in the LOTR fan world, and so I do tolerate them (one of my best friends is a "fangirl", and even find myself laughing at their swooning

    I saw the first part of LOTR's with my girl friends and they all came out of the movie swooning over Legolas, but while I found him to be attractive, I was more concerned with the "undercurrents" of the movie. Such as the concept of "a pure friendship" where you can love someone truly and unselfishly (where you don not care how you appear before them, whether it be weak, or subservient) and you do not expect anything in return.
    This is seen in Sam's character, in his revering love for Frodo. Sam is willing to do anything for Frodo and that includes risking his own life by going straight into "Hell" right alongside him. When I read the books, I found Sam and Frodo's friendship to be profound and deeply moving, causing me to cry at the end. (I know softie ) And I found myself longing for a "Sam" as well as longing to be a "Sam".
    Another "message" that spoke to me while watching the film was the notion of relating "Frodo's journey" to my own life. I found myself connecting with the idea of "walking alone (and against terrible odds) for the sake of doing what is right."
    His perseverance in the struggle with the Ring was also encouraging because it brought the image into my mind of a struggle between the self and the inner demons and facing them with a sort of conviction that if this is the chosen path that you must walk in life then you will face it as best as you are able and leave the rest to a higher Power. (What Gandalf spoke to Frodo really hit home to me about "So do all who face such dark times, but that is not for them to decide. All we can decide is what to do with the time that is given to us".)
    These same concepts that whispered to me while watching the film poured out to me while I was reading the book in vast detail and quantity. Now I find myself appreciating Tolkien's books with a great respect, and far deeper linking than the movies. But I will still make the claim that the LOTR trilogy is my favorite movie of all. And here's another woman stating this as so!!!

    (Talking about women feeling more open to express themselves...hum wherever did you get that from

    Comment by Out_Of_Sheol - January 30, 2004 @ 7:51 PM

  21. Dear Maer-Manadh ~

    My dear sir, you missed the point of my essay. I was writing in direct response to a particular woman's news article, wherein she said women did NOT see anything deep in LOTR. Thus of course I wrote to prove that we do. I am not denegrating men in the least - after all, Professor John Ronald Rual Poindexter *gave* us Middle Earth. I spoke only in response to a woman who felt women would be turned off by what she perceieved as 'too much testosterone' in LOTR. No more. No less. Brilliance, intellect and imagination know neither gender nor race nor boundaries.
    Peace ~
    Erin

    Comment by ErinRua - January 31, 2004 @ 9:25 PM

  22. Women are here in the Lord of the Rings fandom because we look up at the stars at night and think, "What if?" Women are here because we were swept away to a place so richly alive that it is hard to imagine it never really existed. Women are here because Tolkien gave us a realm where oaths matter and honor is real, and which we begin to realize is something we can take unto ourselves.

    38 years ago, when I was in the 4th grade, I picked up a book that I now know was The Hobbit. It was a little beyond my comprehension at the time, so I took it home and asked my mother to read it with me. "Why do you want to read this?" she asked. "This book is for boys." Well, being the subservient, clueless child that I was I took the book back to the school library. Literally, for years, as I grew older, the book haunted me. The title I couldn't remember, and of the story only that some sort of creature lived in a hole. Then, about 4 years ago, a friend of my daughter's mentioned that he was going to New Zealand for a couple of months to work on some post-production color work for Lord of the Rings. My interest was peeked, and I started doing a little research online. I will never forget the day when I came across a site, on which first line read: "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit." I cannot begin to tell you what seeing those 10 little words meant to me. It was as though a veil was lifted somewhere in my memory, and a whole new world was opened up to me.

    Now Erin, I read your FINE essay on women and LOTR, and I feel as though I've come full circle. The entire essay, especially the last three paragraphs could have come directly from my own heart.

    "Thank you" just doesn't quite say enough.

    Toni





    Comment by In_Defense_of_Boromir - March 8, 2004 @ 11:45 AM

  23. Excellent thoughts. A brilliant and sensible reply to an absurd implication. Bravo

    Comment by KingTheoden - April 2, 2004 @ 10:31 AM

  24. w00t w00t!!!

    thanks so much for writing this opinion!!! TOTALLY makes it into my favorites list!!! (i think i'll go telll all my friends about this now, it's too awesome to keep secret!!!!!!!!!)

    Comment by alianastigracelane - April 29, 2004 @ 12:41 PM

  25. That was an excelent, well-thought article.

    Sadly there aren't that many kids at my school who are as huge fans of LotR as much as me, so it's not like I can talk about anything LotR related outside of here without getting the "What the heck is she talking about?" eye. Also I do have several, okay hundreds of instances when I become some giggling, brain dead fangirl. You may shun me if you would like.

    Comment by Perulmaien - May 3, 2004 @ 11:26 AM

  26. All my friends in real life, (except for 3), are guys. You guys really surprise me. You dream, you write poetry, you see things in very interesting ways, so I don't think it is fair to say you only like LOTR because of the battles. (hey, I like the battles too! But I am a majordomo tomboy, so does it count?) Any ways,I don't know why there is a shortage of active Guy fans,9 maybe you guys know.) or a surplus of girls. Actually I think that the surplus *might* (don't hurt me on this Girls!) be because of the uh...hot... guys in the Movies. ahem. There are an awful lot of fans, i've noticed, who have never read the books, and just talk about *Leggy* or *Viggo* and all that(UGH!, in my opinion. rather have an 'ugly' guy with a good heart than a gorgeous one with no spirit.)
    So..wat the heck is your point, Linsul? Guys and Girls are pretty equal on the fan (Of LOTR, not some actor) scale.

    Comment by *~Linsul~*~Songbreeze~* - May 3, 2004 @ 2:20 PM

  27. By reading this article, I... am speechless. I never ever thought about it that way, but know that I do, I relize, it's true...

    Comment by deadmarshes10 - May 15, 2004 @ 4:30 AM

  28. I was tearing up reading it. I've never been able to put into words exactly what it is about LOTR that makes me feel so passionet and excited and feel as though I'm in love. This essay just sumed it all up.

    Comment by RubySandybanks - August 11, 2004 @ 12:21 PM

  29. Wow. ErinRua, you have explained things clearly to me. I understand why a lot of guys prefer to just talk (if they sum up the courage) about the books and movies instead of going to websites like these and pouring their hearts out. Some guys may actually do that, I know, but others have been reluctant to do so. LOTR has been my connection to many things: a friendship with Narquill, a boy who flirts with me every day (can someone tell him that you are s'posed to make flirting less obvious?!), inspirations to write stories and to draw more manga. You have explained the "Guy Factor" to LOTR discussions very well. Thank you.

    God bless you all at Tolkienonline, for your life could be snatched away from you in an instant.

    I'll keep you in my prayers,
    Menelwen

    Comment by Menelwen - April 21, 2005 @ 5:40 PM

  30. Although the second biggest Tolkien fan I happen to know (I'm the first) is my father, I agree with you Erin, we women, see things a little bit different, or maybe, we are just not afraid of being considered silly for loving to talk about these books. I know I'm not.

    My grandmother gave me The Hobbit when I was 12, and I simply loved it. I read it 13 times in 18 months or so, and wished for the day when I could get my hands on LotR (it was never published where I lived back then), and when I finally read it, it became my favorite book. I've been reading it once or twice a year for 12 years now, and I love it even more every time. It is a book that makes you fall in love over and over again, not only with the characters, but with the earth, the air, the trees, with everything that forms this wonderful world of Middle Earth: a place, a time that ARE real, at least to me, every time I open the book.

    Thank you for putting into words all those things. It is a beautifully written essay!

    Comment by Gilwen - May 27, 2005 @ 3:37 PM

  31. I completely agree with you, and that was wonderfully written. There is something very magical about Lord of the Rings, and there are many people who can feel it. Thank you for writing this essay, it was a truly magnificant piece of writing.

    Comment by varda101 - May 29, 2005 @ 7:31 PM

  32. now I know. Good Job Coralie.

    Comment by vanya-vasa - August 12, 2005 @ 4:17 PM

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